JJM Sr's civil birth cert — born 2 Aug 1883 Ardgroom; father Patrick Murphy SHOEMAKER; mother Ellen Murphy formerly Lyne

Summary

Republic of Ireland Civil Registration Birth Certificate (reproduction issued 8 November 2013 by Helen Foley, Authorised Officer) transcribing the original 1883 register entry. Entry No. **168**, registered 10 August 1883 in the Superintendent Registrar's District of Castletown, Co. Cork, birth-registration district of Kilcatherine. Registration No. **11054628**. - **Date of Birth: 2 August 1883** - Place of Birth: **Ardgroom** - Name: **James** - Sex: Male - Father: **Patrick Murphy, Shoemaker, of Ardgroom** - Mother: **Ellen Murphy formerly Lyne** (Ardgroom) - Informant: **Dora Neill**, "Present at the Birth, Ardgroom" - When Registered: 10 August 1883 - Registrar: **Charles Harrison** (same registrar as the 1881 Patrick Murphy + Ellen Lyne marriage cert — continuing civil-registry service in Kilcatherine district) **CRITICAL DATE DISCREPANCY**: The 1971 baptismal-cert reproduction (already filed at 1883-07-26_eyeries-co-cork_james-joseph-murphy-baptism) states born **26 July 1883**, baptized **29 July 1883**. This civil cert states born **2 August 1883**. Both are primary-source transcripts of contemporaneous 1883 records (the parish baptismal register + the state birth register respectively). Reconciliation: baptism on 29 July 1883 BEFORE birth on 2 August 1883 is physically impossible. So either (a) the baptismal-cert's "26 July" was a 1971-era transcription error from the parish register, or (b) the civil cert's "2 August" was a registrar error. Most likely (a) — civil registration was filed 8 days after birth (10 Aug regs from 2 Aug birth) with father as informant, while the 1971 baptismal cert was a retrospective extract by a different cleric 88 years after the event. The CIVIL CERT IS LIKELY AUTHORITATIVE; the baptism cert's dates need re-verification against the original parish register. **Patrick's occupation = SHOEMAKER** (specific trade) — the 1881 marriage cert had recorded him as "Tradesman" (generic). Shoemaker is the specific kind of tradesman he was. **Ellen "formerly Lyne"** — the FOURTH primary-source confirmation of Ellen's maiden name as Lyne (after the 1881 marriage cert, the 1883 baptismal cert, the 1936 Daniel L Murphy marriage license). **Dora Neill** "Present at the Birth" — likely the midwife who attended Ellen's delivery. NEW name to the archive.

Parties named in the record

• registered child
  James(= James Joseph "James J." Murphy (b. 1883 Ardgroom; d. 1938 LA))100

  born: 1883-08-02

• father
  Patrick Murphy(= Patrick Murphy (my ancestor))100

  occupation: Shoemaker · residence: Ardgroom

• mother
  Ellen Murphy formerly Lyne(= Ellen (Lyne) Murphy (b. Ardgroom; m. Patrick Murphy 1881; d. Butte 1935))100

  residence: Ardgroom

People — link detail

• James Joseph "James J." Murphy (b. 1883 Ardgroom; d. 1938 LA)(as printed: James)
  role: registered child · family confidence: 100 certain

  born: 1883-08-02

  The user's JJM. Birth date 2 August 1883 per the civil register; baptism cert states 26 July 1883 — the discrepancy noted in summary. Civil cert is more authoritative; the JJM person record's birth date should be updated to 1883-08-02 and the 1883-07-26 reading flagged as a baptism- cert transcription error.

• Patrick Murphy (my ancestor)(as printed: Patrick Murphy)
  role: father · family confidence: 100 certain

  occupation: Shoemaker · residence: Ardgroom

  OCCUPATION = SHOEMAKER per this 1883 birth cert (specific trade). The 1881 Pat-Ellen marriage cert had recorded "Tradesman" (generic). Shoemaker fits — a leather-trade Eyeries-area artisan. Trade context for the Murphy pre-emigration life and for the later JJM Sr clothing- sales career (Murphy men were leather-and-cloth tradesmen).

• Ellen (Lyne) Murphy (b. Ardgroom; m. Patrick Murphy 1881; d. Butte 1935)(as printed: Ellen Murphy formerly Lyne)
  role: mother · family confidence: 100 certain

  residence: Ardgroom

  4th primary-source confirmation of maiden name Lyne.

Also mentioned

• Dora Neill · informant_midwife

  Present at the birth at Ardgroom. Likely the attending midwife. NEW name.

• Charles Harrison · registrar

  Same Charles Harrison who registered the 1881 Patrick Murphy + Ellen Lyne marriage. Continuing Kilcatherine-district service.

• Helen Foley · cert_reissue_officer_2013

  Modern Authorised Officer who reissued the cert reproduction 8 Nov 2013.

Places

• Ardgroom (village + RC Chapel) (primary)
• Kilcatherine Registrar's District (primary)
• Castletownbere, County Cork (primary)
• County Cork (primary)
• Ireland (primary)

Themes

• irish_american_community

Story threads

• The Pat-and-Ellen Murphy household — Butte 1887 to LA 1980

Tags

• source_primary_family
• evidence_corroborating
• direct_family
• book_chapter_material

Related sources

• 1881-02-13 — Marriage Returns, Superintendent Registrar's District of Castletown — Marriage of Patrick Murphy and Ellen Lyne, 13 Feb 1881, Ardgroom
• 1883-07-29 — Parish of Eyeries, Diocese of Kerry — Register of Baptisms — Birth and Baptismal Certificate — James Murphy (born 26 July 1883, baptized 29 July 1883)
• 1912-04-23 — Montana Bureau of Vital Statistics, Certificate of Death — Patrick J. Murphy death certificate — d. 23 April 1912, 4:30 PM, Warm Springs MT State Hospital, age unknown

Open questions

• Birth-date discrepancy (2 Aug civil vs 26 July baptism) needs resolution by re-checking the original Eyeries parish baptismal register. If the parish register actually says 2 August (with the 1971 cert being a transcription error), the discrepancy resolves; if the parish register itself says 26 July, then the discrepancy is original (parish vs state) and the civil cert should be treated as more authoritative.
• The 1971 baptismal cert + the 2013 birth cert + the GEDCOM + the 1900 census + the 1918 WW1 draft + the 1958 JJM Jr resume — each of these has either 26 July or no date. Worth a back-pass to align all the date-attribution notes once the parish-register original is re-checked.