Myles Lyne (Sr.) civil death cert — d. 10 May 1872 Ardgroom, age 81, farmer (= 1839 Tralee land registry Myles?)

Ireland Civil Registry of Deaths — District of Kilcatherine, Union of Castletown, Co. Cork · Co. Cork, Ireland (Kilcatherine RD / Castletown SRD) · 1872-05-10

civil record deathprimary focus

Summary

Irish Civil Registry of Deaths certified true copy of Entry No. 400 from the 1872 Kilcatherine District Register, recording the death of **Myles Lyne**. **DEATH DETAILS** (verbatim from the entry): - Date and Place of Death: **Tenth May 1872, Ardgroom** - Name and Surname: **Myles Lyne** - Sex: Male - Condition: **Married** - Age last Birthday: **81** (= born ~1791) - Rank, Profession, or Occupation: **Farmer** - Certified Cause of Death and Duration of Illness: **Old Age. No Medical Attendant.** - Informant: **Ellen Lyne, Present at Death, Ardgroom** - When Registered: **Seventeenth May 1872** - Registrar: **C[harles] Lewis** (per the certification block) **GENERATIONAL PLACEMENT**: This Myles Lyne (b. ~1791, d. 1872 age 81) is from the **earliest documented Lyne generation** in the archive. He is the **most plausible** father of: - **Myles Lyne Jr.** (m. Margaret Shea 1865 Kilcatherine, JJM's maternal grandfather) Naming pattern: Myles Lyne Sr. (1791) → Myles Lyne Jr. (m. 1865) → Ellen Lyne (m. 1881 = JJM's mother). The Myles-Lyne naming recursion of giving a son your own first name is standard Beara-peninsula practice. **PROBABLE = 1839 TRALEE LAND REGISTRY MYLES LYNE**: Myles Lyne Sr. (b. ~1791) would have been **48 years old in 1839** — exactly the right age to be a freeholder named on the Tralee Division land registry published 19 June 1839 in the Kerry Evening Post. Same generation, plausibly same person. (Tralee Division covers parts of N. Kerry adjacent to the Beara peninsula; Lyne is a Beara surname; the freeholder status is consistent with a 48-year-old established farmer who later died age 81 at Ardgroom still classed as "Farmer.") This would merge person_myles_lyne_kerry_1839_landowner (the property_record open question) with person_myles_lyne_sr_d1872_ ardgroom (this record's subject). Held at fc 75 pending Annals of Beara Lyne-line corroboration. **ELLEN LYNE THE INFORMANT** could be: (a) **Wife of Myles Sr.** (then JJM's great-grandmother) — if so she'd be ~70+ in 1872 (b) **Daughter of Myles Sr.** (then JJM's aunt) — sibling of Myles Jr. or his cousin (c) **Granddaughter** — i.e., the 12-year-old Ellen Lyne who would in 9 years marry Patrick Murphy (= JJM's mother, b. ~1860). A 12-year-old as informant on her grandfather's death cert is unusual but possible if she was the only literate or named adult present. (d) **Daughter-in-law** = Margaret Shea Lyne (Myles Jr's wife, m. 1865) — but she'd be Margaret, not Ellen. Most plausibly (a) — the wife. The informant convention preferred the surviving spouse when available. **CORROBORATIVE PAGE CONTEXT**: Same page (entries 391-400, deaths registered Apr-May 1872 Kilcatherine RD) records ten deaths in Kilcatherine parish including: - **No. 396 Ellen Murphy** (Female Spinster, daughter of a farmer, age 10 months [or 10 years — register ambiguous], d. 23 April 1872 Ballydonegan, pertussis 3 weeks). Could be a peripheral Murphy of the Beara cluster but probably not directly family. - **No. 394 Mary Murphy** (Female Widow of a Miner, age 70, d. 24 April 1872 Ballinacarriga, chronic rheumatism 17 years). Age 70 in 1872 → b. ~1802. Could be a Murphy of PJM-the-bartender's parental generation (PJM's parents both died Ireland per his 1908 asylum clinical notes; mother's name unknown). Held at very-low confidence.

Parties named in the record

decedent
Myles Lyne(= Myles Lyne Sr. (b. ~1791 Beara; d. 10 May 1872 Ardgroom age 81; Farmer; JJM's most plausible great-grandfather))75
age: 81 · status: Married · occupation: Farmer · died at: Ardgroom, Co. Cork
informant
Ellen Lyne(= Ellen Lyne (informant at Myles Lyne Sr.'s death 1872 Ardgroom; most plausibly his wife))50

People — link detail

Myles Lyne Sr. (b. ~1791 Beara; d. 10 May 1872 Ardgroom age 81; Farmer; JJM's most plausible great-grandfather)(as printed: Myles Lyne)
role: decedent · family confidence: 75 strong
age: 81 · born: ~1791 · died at: Ardgroom, Co. Cork · status: Married · occupation: Farmer
Most plausibly the FATHER of Myles Lyne Jr. (JJM's maternal grandfather, m. Margaret Shea 1865 Kilcatherine). The naming-recursion Myles-Sr. → Myles-Jr. → Ellen-Lyne (JJM's mother) is standard Beara practice; the Ardgroom location ties to the Lyne family's documented Ardgroom presence; the age 81 places his birth ~1791 (a half-century before Myles Jr's marriage), consistent with father-son generational gap.
Ellen Lyne (informant at Myles Lyne Sr.'s death 1872 Ardgroom; most plausibly his wife)(as printed: Ellen Lyne)
role: informant · family confidence: 50 candidate
"Present at Death, Ardgroom." Most plausibly Myles Sr.'s WIFE (= JJM's great-grandmother). Could alternatively be his daughter (= sibling of Myles Jr.). NOT same person as Ellen Lyne (JJM's mother, b. ~1860, m. Patrick Murphy 1881) — JJM's mother would have been only 12 in 1872 and named more likely as "Ellen the granddaughter" if she were the informant. Hold pending Annals of Beara corroboration of the Lyne Sr. generation's spouse name.

Also mentioned

Charles Lewis · registrar_kilcatherine_1872
Registrar of Births and Deaths for the District of Kilcatherine, signed all ten entries on the certified true-copy page.
[I.] K. Harrison · superintendent_registrar_castletown_1872
John Murley · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 391: Male Bachelor 26 yrs, Labourer, d. 19 Apr 1872 Killaugh, phthisis 9 months. Surname Murley (variant of Murphy / Morley?) — not attributed.
Catherine Sullivan · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 392: Female Widow 65, widow of a Miner, d. 17 Apr 1872 Kilkinchan, bronchitis 4 years.
Michael Leary · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 393: Male Bachelor 6 mo, son of a Farmer, d. 29 Apr 1872 Dursey Island, pertussis 2 weeks.
Mary Murphy · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 394: Female Widow 70, widow of a Miner, d. 24 Apr 1872 Ballinacarriga, chronic rheumatism 17 yrs. Possible PJM-parental-generation Murphy candidate — held at very low confidence; mother's name in PJM's 1908 asylum clinical notes is unknown.
Timothy Sullivan · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 395: Male Married 35, Shop Keeper, d. 26 Apr 1872 Eliue [parish], phthisis 6 months + diarrhea 2 weeks (certified).
Ellen Murphy (decedent) · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 396: Female Spinster 10 months [or 10 years — register ambiguous], daughter of a Farmer, d. 23 Apr 1872 Ballydonegan, pertussis 3 weeks. Probably not family but Murphy of the Beara cluster.
Mary Lowney · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 397: Female Spinster 2 years, daughter of a Miner, d. 6 May 1872 Eliue, bronchitis 8 weeks.
Jeoffery Connell · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 348/398: Male Bachelor 23, School Teacher, d. 30 Apr 1872 Knockroe, phthisis 6 months. Notable as a young West Cork school teacher of the era.
John Lowney · peripheral_same_page_death
No. 399: Male Widower 90, Farmer, d. 4 May 1872 Cloghkeen, old age.

Places

Ardgroom (village + RC Chapel) (primary)
Kilcatherine (parish) (primary)
Castletownbere, County Cork (primary)
County Cork (primary)
Ireland (primary)

Themes

irish_american_community

Story threads

Related sources

Open questions

Is Myles Lyne Sr. (d. 1872 age 81) = the 1839 Tralee land registry Myles Lyne? Strong circumstantial fit (right age, right region, same Lyne family). Annals of Beara Lyne-line research should resolve.
Is Myles Sr. the father of Myles Jr. (m. Margaret Shea 1865)? Most plausible relationship but unconfirmed.
Identity of informant Ellen Lyne — wife of Myles Sr., daughter, or granddaughter? Wife is most plausible.
Same-page Mary Murphy (widow of a miner, age 70, d. 1872 Ballinacarriga) — any chance she was PJM-the-bartender's mother? PJM was b. ~1856; his mother dying in 1872 when he was 16 would fit emigration-young pattern. Held at low confidence; needs cross-check against any Beara Murphy parish baptism for a Pat Murphy ~1856 with mother named Mary.